Are there any current Trustkill bands that are doing nothing but playing music for a living? How many records does one really need to sell to "make a living" playing in a hardcore band?

Well, it all depends on how you want to live. Most of my bands are music lovers that would rather sleep in a gutter and be able to play music, than have to work a 9 to 5 job every day. Right now, every band on the roster is a "full-time" band, except for Nora (those guys are losers and have real jobs… yeah, you heard me). As long as the band is smart about how they spend their money, it really isn't all that hard to make a living out of it. No band can tour 12 months out of the year, so a lot of the members of the bands have jobs that they can go back to when they are home for a few weeks in-between tours. Jobs like working at a radio station, screen printing, hair salons, making buttons, stuff like that. Of course, the transition from being a part time band to a full time band is tough, and it takes sacrifices. Most Precious Blood is a perfect example: Tom is a forensic psychologist, Justin works at the biggest radio station in NYC, and Rachel does really disgusting things with dead bodies. They all have amazing jobs, and yet, decided to drop everything in their lives to get out on the road. Justin would call me every night and be like, "Dude, do you think this is a good idea?". And I would tell him that if he doesn't take advantage of the opportunities he has right now, he is going to look back at his life 10 years from now and be like, "Man, I could have been touring around the country with my favorite bands, playing the music I wrote to thousands of kids, and get paid for it???". I paralleled it to my decision to run the label instead of practice law, it's kind of like a no-brainer. It's tough to decide to drop a job that keeps your life stable and secure, for a music related "job" that is plagued with instability. But I think that every person that does it, is happier in the end.

From the days when TK had Harvest and Endeavor, to now with Poison The Well, Most Precious Blood, and Eighteen Visions, you've always housed bands that were quite appealing and popular to the hardcore crowd. Why do you think that is?

I'm not sure to be honest. Maybe it's just that these bands were really fucking good, and all it was going to take was to have someone release their music on a national level for everyone else to figure it out. When I signed PTW and 18V, nobody had ever heard of them. I had heard them, and I loved them, and I wanted everyone else to hear them too. If you mean why do hardcore kids in particular like the TK bands, that probably has to do with the fact that I am a hardcore kid, and have been listening to hardcore bands for 15 years now, so I know what I like. I don’t write the music or tell anyone what to play or sing about, so if kids like the Trustkill bands, it really doesn’t have all that much to do with me.

What do you think it was about PTW's "Opposite Of December" that eventually caused such a huge buzz?

I think it was just a really emotional album that touched people on a number of levels. It was raw, it was real, and it was genuine. People could relate to the lyrics, the music was phenomenal, and when kids met the guys in the band, they realized that they were just like you and me. I was stoked to see the album in Revolver's "Top 69 Rock Records", that was really cool. That album was definitely a turning point in the history of TK. I mean, I remember talking to the guys in PTW when the album first started gaining some buzz and we were like, "Man, imagine if it sold 10,000 copies?". Well, it ended up going well beyond that number, so our hopes came true and then some. The fact that that album had such an effect on all the new bands that were coming out in the last two years was amazing. It was like every single press kit I got from a band listed them as an influence. It’s almost become cliché to say that you sound like PTW, because at this point, it seems like every band has some similarity to PTW. It’s sort of like saying you sound like Hatebreed because you have mosh parts, you know?

Personally, I really liked "Tear From The Red," but of course many PTW fans felt the band had compromised their sound. Do you ever get the sense that there isn't much loyalty in hardcore?

Of course. I always said that in hardcore you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. If you are in a band that gets really big, and you make your next album sounds the same, kids will hate it. If you change a lot, kids will hate it. So in the end, what you need to do, is just play the music that you want to play, and don't pay attention to what other people think. It is the only way to maintain your sanity. When "Tear From The Red" came out, the dudes in the band were so nervous, they called me and asked me what kids thought about it because they didn't dare go on the internet, they didn't want to read what kids were saying. Granted, most of what kids were saying was positive, but still, PTW wrote an album that they loved, so it didn't matter all that much what people thought. Eighteen Visions did the same thing... I mean, they released "Until The Ink Runs Out" which is at this point a metalcore classic, but how many albums can you put out that sound like that? They had to move on, so they did. I think "Vanity" is the absolute, without a doubt, best album I have ever put out. I love it. I still listen to it every single day. As for PTW, it's funny, I've been reading things kids say on the internet about how "Trustkill made them change their sound" which I think is the funniest shit I have ever read. I was down in Florida hanging out with them a few months before they recorded TFTR and they played me some practice tapes of the new material, and I thought it was phenomenal. I was so excited for them to record again. For a kid to think that I have the power to "change" my band's sound is actually kind of flattering. I mean, it's downright preposterous, but funny. And really, their new record doesn’t sound all that much different than the last. All these kids were shocked when Jeffrey sang on the new album, but I kept thinking, “Did you ever listen to the last album?!?!?” I mean, there was a lot of singing on “The Opposite Of December” and it seems like kids forgot. It didn’t seem like a big leap to me.

A lot of TK albums now come with stickers comparing the respective band's sound to that of more mainstream bands (18V to STP, PTW to Deftones). Are we correct in assuming this tactic is a way of getting the "TK" bands out to the public? Do those stickers really make a difference?

That is a "marketing tool" that I actually stole from Big Wheel Records. I remember seeing a Piebald CD that had a sticker on it saying what bigger bands they and sounded like and toured with, I thought it was an awesome idea. Rama over at Big Wheel knows what he's doing, he's a good guy. These days there are just an overwhelming amount of new CDs that are released every week and you have to do something to make yours stand out and get noticed. The sticker thing I do now I think is a great idea and it does make a difference because although we (me and people "in the know") might know exactly who is in Most Precious Blood and what bands they were in and what they sound like, the average kid in a store doesn't, and if he did know, maybe he would buy the CD. Before I make any of those stickers, I always ask the bands what bands they think they might sound something like, I always get their input. In fact, I usually make them pick the bands to list, so nobody gets upset about anything. I mean, you don't think I would have listed "The Cure" for Most Precious Blood, do you? That was all Justin, not me. The kid has a "Siouxsie and the Banshees" tattoo on him for Christ’s sake.

There was some "controversy" when Hopesfall joined the TK roster. What was behind that? Was it the fact that they were well established in the Christian hardcore scene?

As many people know, before Trustkill the record label, there was Trustkill the fanzine. A lot of what I was writing back then was very anti-religion. I consider myself a “cultural Jew”, meaning, I appreciate all the history of the Jewish people and take pride in it, but as far as all the God stuff is concerned, it’s all crap. I am an atheist, and always have been. So I would write about my feelings on religion in the zine, and even made some tee shirts a long time ago with the word “TRUSTKILL” and the T’s were upside-down crosses, things like that. I was pretty outspoken about it. Trustkill Records has always been a pretty personable label, meaning, people seem to know about me, it’s not some faceless, heartless, corporation or anything. It is just me and some shitty logo. People don’t equate a label like MCA or Epic with any political agendas or opinions, but it’s different when it is a small indie label. So although the label was never a soapbox for me or anything, people still knew the history of me as a person, and how I feel about things. Funny thing is, some of my favorite bands are very outspoken Christians, such as Living Sacrifice and Sensefield. When I decided to sign Hopesfall, it wasn’t about where they went on Sundays or anything, it was about the same thing it has always been about; the music, the lyrics, and the people. I met them at CBGBs in NYC and thought they were an awesome bunch of guys. Their music was just so powerful and emotional, I really wanted them to be part of the TK Family. If they were a bunch of axe-murderers, then yeah, I would be a little hesitant. But they were Christian, and I really don’t have a problem with how people think, until they act on it. They believe in God and that is fine. I don’t, they know it, and we’re all happy. I make fun of their accents because they sound funny, and they’re from the South. But seriously, those guys are the funnest bunch of people to hang out with, they rule.

Eighteen Visions: Why do kids love to talk about them so much? What's your take on the whole thing?

Ha ha ha, we talk about that all the time. A few months ago, when 18V weren’t doing a lot of touring, James calls me and he was like, “Dude, how is that we barely even play shows and kids still talk about us incessantly?”. It’s weird, I think kids just love talking about them. The band can just sit home and do nothing and kids still talk about them like crazy. They get so much hype, it would cost me thousands in publicity to get that kind of press, heh heh. I think it’s because they are doing something that hardcore kid aren’t used to. The band loves it, and they feed off it. The title of the new album, “Vanity”, is just a mockery of what kids think about them. The best part is that now the band is touring full time, and they’ve never been bigger. Their shows are huge, most shows on the last US tour were sold out, and they are having a blast. Not a single person has said anything to the band at any of their shows, and they wouldn’t dare to. Have you seen James lately? He’s a pretty big kid, and beat up probably 3 or 4 people on the last tour. He doesn’t take any shit, so it’s probably a good thing that kids are too scared to say anything to him, otherwise, it would get messy. He is also my personal hairdresser, as well as my wife’s. He can hook up a good “lid.”

You guys aggressively pushed 18V's "Vanity" (full-page ads in Alternative Press, etc.). How has the response been, both financially and critically?

The response has been phenomenal. The album is selling really well, has gotten amazing reviews all over the place, the band is getting press in huge magazines, they’re getting bigger tour offers, bigger endorsements, etc. When I first got the album and listened to it, I was blown away. I knew it was going to do well, and I was determined to make it to. I went all out with this record because I was positive it would do well, and it did. In 8 weeks it has already sold double what their last album has sold in 4 years, so that is pretty good. Aside from whiny kids on messageboards and stuff, I really haven’t heard a single bad thing about it. Every review I have seen in a magazine is great. CMJ said "Vanity is the quintessential metalcore record of the year", and San Diego Punk said "Vanity is destined to be yet another Trustkill classic". We are shooting a video this December with Darren Doane (straight-edge director who has done videos for PTW, Blink 182, AFI, Snapcase, Thursday, etc) and we are really excited to get that out to people. If you’ve ever seen 18V live, you know they are just destined to make a kick ass video.

Most people know that Poison The Well has moved on to a new label. You must have mixed emotions when you spend years promoting a band, and, because you've done your job well, they leave Trustkill to maintain momentum. It's as if a particular band's success is good for TK, but too much success screws TK in the end if a band jumps ship. Your thoughts?

I have always tried to keep my bands on the label, rather than sell them off to a “bigger” label. I have had plenty of offers to have my bands plucked from me, and have always turned them down. I think that is a big mistake a lot of labels make. I mean, no matter how “cool” Trustkill might be, it’s really only as “cool” as the current roster. I have had a lot of really amazing bands on the roster in the past, but kids forget quickly the bands you used to have, and only measure your “cool guy status” by what you are doing now. Poison The Well were on Trustkill for 3 years, we did two albums together, they got really big, got some huge offers, and they took them. I would like to think that if we had waited until my new deal went through, that they would have stayed with Trustkill. All I can hope is that they don’t lose any of their fans with their new album on Atlantic. Like you said, “loyalty” is kinda lacking these days, and kids are quick to turn their backs on their favorite bands just because they’ve gone to a major. What is cool from my perspective is that PTW is the only band that has ever left TK for another label, aside from Despair and Cast Iron Hike, but that was ages ago. And the fact that they went to a major label is kinda cool, I mean, it would have been shitty if they went to a “competitor’s” label or something. But obviously, a major label has quite the deep pockets, and can afford to do things that Trustkill cannot. And I guess that is what PTW wanted, to be able to fly to Sweden to record an album, and other things that cost a fortune. But in the end, it does suck to see a band leave, it’s kind of like a girlfriend dumping you for the cool-blond-haired-good-looking-wealthy-captain-of-the-football-team kind of guy. I spent three years of my life working with that band every day, and now they are gone. I mean, we still talk all the time, but it’s just not the same. As far as a band “screwing TK”, I guess that just comes down to contractual obligations and stuff. I don’t want to get into specifics, but usually, when a band leaves a label and they still owe the label a few records, there is a “buyout.” This hasn’t happened with Trustkill yet, but if it ever did, these things are outlined in contracts so people don't get screwed.

Do you feel that hardcore is becoming a "farm league" for the majors to pick bands from, whereas, in the past, the hardcore "sound" wasn't as marketable? Why do you think that is?

Of course, and it always has been. Look what happened with Into Another, Sensefield, Civ, Jawbreaker, Samiam, Jawbox, Shudder To Think, Seaweed, and Quicksand. All these bands were on indies and jumped ship to the majors. Granted, none of these bands were real “hard” or anything, but at the time, they all had a sound that was different from the popular music being heard on the radio. The majors are using the indies as their “free” A&R people, and plucking bands that have the street credibility to make it in the big leagues. The problem is, of course, that the band usually loses all their “street cred” anyway once they hit the major. Hopefully that won’t happen with PTW. Again though, popular music is changing, the music on the radio is getting considerably heavier, there is a bigger focus on “rock”, etc. The major labels know there is an audience for this type of music and they are trying to capitalize on it. It is only natural for them to turn to us (the indies) and pick and choose who they want, because we have bands that have established fanbases, and have proven that they can work together and won’t break up in 6 months, something that the majors are terrified about.

Are a lot of TK bands being courted right now?

Yeah, there is always talk from bigger labels and majors about wanting to come in and scoop up some of my bands, but I usually just shrug it off. When I sign a band, I expect them to be here for the long run, and now, I can offer a band just about everything a major label can, which is dope.

Whatever happened with Spark Lights The Friction?

They just had a lot of internal problems that they couldn’t work out. Which is weird, because when I signed them they were like these 4 guys that were inseparable, so I thought they were gonna last. I bought them a van, put them on a full U.S. tour with PTW, and they came home and broke up, it sucked. I was pretty pissed, but what can I really do, you know? They are friends of mine still, I talk to the guitarist pretty often. I thought their album was awesome, I really liked it, and so did a lot of people. The problem is, unless a band is out there playing and touring, people just don’t wanna give a record the chance it deserves. I can’t blame people, I’m the same way I guess. Among our circle of friends though, we always say that the Spark album will be one of those things that in like 5 years kids are gonna start picking up. I just really think that record was really far ahead of its time, it’s pretty advanced, both musically and lyrically, I don’t think kids were ready for it yet, kind of like every Beastie Boys record. I mean, how far ahead of its time was “Paul’s Boutique”? That record came out in 1989 and people were like, “What the fuck?!?!?”. Then, 5 years later, it was like an underground classic.

Along those same lines, I sometimes see people asking about Idle Hands... what became of them?

Aaaaahhhhhh, yet another Trustkill band that bit the dust way too soon. I fucking loved this band, I think their album “Building A Desert” was phenomenal, I still listen to it all the time. These guys were dead-set on touring full time and being a hard working and active band, but they had a major pitfall. It was summer 2000, and the band was heading out on their first US tour right after the album came out. They were literally on their way to their very first show on the tour, hit some black ice in Utah (or somewhere out there), flipped their van a few times, and skidded a few hundred yards, in the middle of the night. Their van was completely destroyed, not salvageable at all. Their equipment was destroyed, their merchandise was scattered all over the highway, mangled and water/oil/gasoline damaged. The whole band was taken to the hospital for some pretty serious bruises, scrapes, and lots of glass removal. I have photos of the van and I couldn’t believe that none of them were seriously injured. This was about 2 weeks before the big Hellfest 2000, so they ended up just flying out for the fest, and skipped the whole tour they were supposed to be on. It was this accident that ruined the band because they never quite got back on their feet afterwards. They had no equipment, no merch, no money, and their morale hit an all time low. I think they just got home and didn’t talk to each other for a few weeks, until I got a call from one of them being like, “Yeah dude, we’re done.” Those are the worst phone calls to get when you run a label.

Finally, is Brother's Keeper still a band?

I’m actually not so sure what is going on with Brother’s Keeper at the moment, but Mike Ski (the singer) has started a new band called “The AKA’s”. They are along the same lines as the latter BK stuff (after “Fantasy Killer”) mixed with some MC5 and Refused. They are super good and have already started playing out. Look out for them soon.

Looking back with what you've done so far with TK, would you do anything differently?

I think I trust people too much, and I’ve been burned a bunch of times for it. People in the punk-rock world are pretty sketchy sometimes, so you gotta be really careful. A record label needs to grow slowly, and I think I did that pretty well. I mean, people are always surprised when they hear that my first record came out in 1994. “What?!?!? I never even heard of Trustkill until 1999.” When you don’t have any money, you can’t really come out with both guns blazing, you know? You gotta start small, and slowly develop a brand name and a reputation. The evolution of Trustkill worked out pretty well I think, so I’m pretty happy with where I am.

Mr. Josh "Aquaman" Trustkill

What's been your greatest achievement with TK?

My greatest achievement is that I have bands that are making a living off playing their music, and that is what I always wanted. When my bands call me every day from the road and tell me how much fun they’re having and how awesome a tour or a string of shows are, I get totally stoked. The fact that I can sit here all day in my basement doing what I love to do and it in turn allows my friends to have the coolest jobs in the world is pretty awesome. I couldn’t really ask for anything else. All the big business “industry” type shit like good sound scan numbers, and Billboard, and big tours, and all that stuff comes second. Don’t get me wrong, when I see “Trustkill” on these lists with a bunch of major labels, it’s pretty cool. But I still think being able to have full-time touring bands on the roster is the coolest part about running a label. I love it.

Are there any particular labels that you look up to, or try to model TK after?

When I first started the label, I knew that I didn’t want to be “pigeonholed”. A label like Revelation, back in the day, was amazing because you could pick up any new record they put out, and it was great music. You didn’t necessarily know what it was gonna be like, heavy or soft, fast or slow, but you knew it would be good. There were other labels around at the time that were only doing straight edge bands, or only doing metal, and I never wanted that. All I ever wanted was for kids to go into a store, or look at a distro bin at a show, see the latest Trustkill CD, and go, “I think I’ll buy this because it’s on Trustkill.” I would like to think that 8 years of extreme scrutiny when it comes to picking bands has helped me get to that place I wanted to be. Obviously, you can’t please everyone, and that is why there are labels like Relapse and Century Media, who keep it strictly to metal, and that is great. If a kid wants a metal record, he should buy the new Nuclear Blast or Earache CD, because that is what they do. But that’s not what I do, I just put out great music. Well, at least I think it’s great, heh heh. The thing is, even with the most extreme cases of kids that only listen to one type of music, you know they need a break every now and then, I mean, we all listen to different types of music. And really, if you confine yourself to one type, you are truly missing out on a shitload of amazing bands.

On the other side of the equation, are there any smaller labels you see a lot of potential in? We recently had a poll regarding some of "these" labels and among the choices were Bridge Nine, Goodfellow, and Robotic Empire. Any smaller labels you really dig?

Chris from Goodfellow and me go way back, he is an awesome dude. I hope his label gets huge, he deserves it. He seems to have a good ear for music, a lot of the bands he’s worked with are really good like ETID, Taken, Premonitions of War, etc. I mean, it’s too bad he’s a Canadian, otherwise, he would be almost like a real person, heh heh. If anyone wants to see a photo of Chris wrapped in an American flag, email me, I have one. Chris from Bridge 9 is another awesome guy, I don’t know him too well, but the times we’ve hung out and talked he seems really cool. His label is real young, but his background is what makes his label what it is, the fact that he worked for other Boston labels before starting his own. I kind of wish I had done the same thing. As far as the music he puts out, I don’t think I’ve ever heard anything he’s released, so I can’t comment on that. He concentrates on the more posi-88-nike-high-tops-crew-cut-Boston style of hardcore, and that’s not really my thing. But some people dig it, so that’s cool. As for the other label you mentioned… who? Never heard of them. As for other smaller labels, all the labels that were putting out the music I really loved, are mostly gone, or soon to be gone. I always loved everything on Dr. Strange, Ebullition, Gravity, Inner Ear, Old Glory, stuff like that.

Do you ever envision a day when Trustkill no longer has any hardcore bands on its roster? What happens to TK when Josh Trustkill turns 40?

Hhhhhhmmmmm… good question. I imagine the time will come when I can no longer keep up with the style of music that Trustkill is known for, but I don’t think that will be anytime soon. Shit, I have been listening to hardcore and going to hardcore shows for 15 years now, and my tastes haven’t really changed. It’ll be weird when the day comes where I have other people doing my A&R work for me. Right now I have friends that help out, but actually paying someone else to travel around and “scout” talent, that would be strange indeed.

What is the ultimate goal you have in mind for Trustkill Records? What needs to happen for you to be able to sit back and say, "Wow, I can't believe this is what MY label has become"?

My ultimate goal was always to have full-time touring bands, and to be able to run the label as my only job, and both of those already happened, so that is pretty sweet. I went to law school thinking I would always be doing the label, but maybe not as my real job, I thought maybe I would practice law and do the label on the side. But in reality, I love the label more than any legal career I could possibly have. Yeah, getting a sweet job at a big Manhattan firm is great pay, but the hours suck, it is extremely stressful and competitive, and I would never get to see my wife, or my dogs, or my friends. Now, I work with my friends, see my dogs all day, and have plenty of time to spend with my wife. There are still plenty of things I would like to see with Trustkill as far as growth is concerned. I am too much of a perfectionist to ever just sit back and go, “Okay, I am comfortable here, this is enough.” For me, that day will never come. I am always going to be thinking of new ways to help my bands out, new ways to promote, to market, etc. I think of myself as a pretty aggressive label dude, I never sit back and just let things happen. When I watched the VMA's this year and Dashboard Confessional won an award, I thought that was pretty amazing. Not because he is so great or anything, I mean, his album is pretty good and all, but I thought it was so cool that Vagrant Records, who was still an “indie” when that album was released, had a band that won a VMA. That is pretty fucking cool, and also says something about the state of the music industry right now. The indies are still doing amazing, and the majors are struggling. If Eighteen Visions or someone won a VMA, that would kick ass, I would be so stoked. Other than that, I don’t know what else there is. Poison The Well was my first band to hit the Billboard Charts, but since then both Eighteen Visions and Hopesfall have hit the charts as well. I would love to see one of my bands on the cover of a bigger music magazine like Revolver or Alternative Press, that would be hot.

Ok, we couldn't do an interview without asking... what are you listening to these days?

I just bought an Ipod, so I have over 300 of my favorite albums in there, and I throw it on shuffle all day, it is the coolest thing ever. These days I am listening to (in no particular order) Samiam, Queen, The Used, Glassjaw, Heroin, The Juliana Theory, In Flames, Refused, Killswitch Engage, Jimmy Eat World, Ignite, Lifetime, Merauder, Andrew W.K., Misfits, Finch, Hole, Only Living Witness, New Found Glory, Weezer, Alkaline Trio, Screaching Weasel, Into Another, At The Drive In, Smoking Popes, Shadows Fall, Face To Face, System Of A Down, Bad Brains, 36 Crazyfists, ArmsBendBack, Inside Out, Coheed And Cambria, Prince, Reggie And The Full Effect, Down By Law, Bleeding Through, Jawbreaker, Descendents, Hatebreed, Coldplay, Sunny Day Real Estate, Duran Duran, Sensefield, Blink 182, Oustpoken, Adam Ant, Texas Is The Reason, The Movielife, and of course all the Trustkill bands.

Anything else you'd like people to know about Trustkill Records? Any important developments on the horizon? Final thoughts?

I am looking at and talking to a bunch of really awesome bands right now, as always, but I don’t want to say “who” until something is official. The best way to keep up on all the daily news is to visit the website (how cliché) and sign up for the mailing list. We are currently redesigning our entire website, working on the webstore, and adding a lot of really cool things to it. I encourage anyone with any questions to email me (josh@trustkill.com) whenever they want, I always try to answer every email I get. All I can ask is that anyone who reads this gives all of my bands a chance, because they are all amazing people and deserve all the success they get. I obviously would be nowhere without them. Thanks a million to Alex for the interview.