Late last year Mike Gluck had an extensive conversation with Ringworm frontman James Bulloch (better known as Human Furnace). Why did it take so long to post? We don't know, but it's still a relevant read.

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What's up Mike?

Pretty good.

Yeah, I had appointments so I was running a little behind schedule.

True enough.

Thanks very much.

(laughs) Shocked, huh?

That's true, yeah.

That's right man.

Yeah, not for that long, we were only out for five days. We just got back to Ohio a few days ago.

Well, as far as tour support, I mean, it's only five days so they didn't have to give us much in terms of tour support. But what they ARE doing, putting commercials on TV, like "Ringworm, on tour now with blah blah blah." So they did pretty well by us for this one. I mean, we haven't done a major, full-length tour yet, so we'll see what kind of support we get for that. But as far as Victory's concerned, they seem to be doing...I mean you're always gonna have some kind of gripes with what they aren't doing, but that's pretty much the case with every band and every label. But in our situation they're doing pretty good by us so far, so I can't really complain.

Obviously it's not our scene. We don't want to pigeonhole ourselves to one category, but obviously we were a standout among those three bands. We don't sound like any of those bands.

And being the opener and stuff, and being...not as well-known I guess you can say in that circle...to the majority of those kids, we're a brand new band. They've probably heard of us but never heard us, know what I mean?

Yeah, exactly, if not younger. But we were never really uncomfortable because we do what we do.

Uh, decent at best. I'm sure we won a few people over, but it was a tough crowd for us, and to be honest we kind of like that. Sometimes. You've gotta try to get some new people into it. But a lot of people just stood there and stared at us, giving us a few sympathy claps when we were done, and there's always a few people that are there just to see us. So we did our thing and it went pretty well, and I'm not complaining about it, but it was a different crowd for us.

Exactly. Every night, Jake Bannon from Converge, every night he went out of his way to make the point that we were one of the bands that influenced a lot of stuff. He said a lot of kind words about us. And you know, come to think of it, a lot of the bands did. But whether that did any good or not, it's like you said, kids are kinda fickle, kinda...I don't want to say closed-minded, but they don't really know a lot of other stuff.

Right, sure. But you know we OK, we did our thing. We went into this thing knowing that this wasn't gonna be the kind of tour where got a fuckin' huge crowd response. And one of the shows we played in Erie, that was really really good, but a lot of our response had to do with, for one, all the kids who wanted to come out just for us, ticket prices were a little higher. And we played so early on the bill, so our fans' ages are older than the 16 year-olds, so it's like "well dude, I want to come out to see you play, but I get out of work at 6, you guys play at 7, and I don't want to pay fifteen bucks just to come out to see you guys play for twenty minutes...no offense" and I could understand that.

Exactly. What we're trying to push for this coming year is, we'd like to get on some metal tours, you know?

And I think that's something that would really suit us well because a lot of metal kids are a lot more open-minded, and also we sound a lot more like bands that they might be into.

Yeah, so hopefully something like that happens next year, because we're looking to stay out for pretty much the whole year.

Is it deserved? Well, in some ways yes, in some ways no. If we're talking about work ethic, then you could say it's deserved. Whether I like a band or not, I mean, Darkest Hour actually stayed at my house. So when they play in Cleveland, we have some drinks and shit like that, and they're genuinely nice guys. And they're good at what they do. Their style isn't something that I particularly care for, it doesn't do too much for me, but I'm older and just a little more closed-minded about things, kinda stuck in my ways. But, you know, I give it up to them for their work ethic and they're really trying. So hype, it's deserved in some ways, but in creativity aspects, not so much, but I don't get jealous about too many things. It IS out there for the taking if you want to work for it, and if you want to play a style that's pretty popular, and a lot of bands do it, they God bless them. But am I gonna listen to them? No. Am I gonna buy their stuff? No.

(laughs) Is that what it's called? That's actually a very good description, I didn't know there was a whole genre for that.

They're another band that's really good at what they do and really, really cool dudes, we had a good time with them. But it's another band who I find really tough to get into their style. It's so all-over-the-place.

Absolutely.

I agree. Our stuff is really simple, and some would look at it as generic, but in a way it's not really generic.

I know one show we played and we didn't really get a good response, actually I think it was in Cleveland, and I don't know exactly what I said, but it wasn't really a loud response at all. So I said "hey guys, we could put more riffs in our songs if that would make you feel better."

And that kind of went over not-so-well, but whatever, I can totally understand where you're coming from with that because we're completely simple compared to a lot of these other bands that we're out with. We don't want to rip off all those same bands. I'm not saying that's what they all do, but we like to keep it simple.

And that's another thing too, because when kids come to shows and see us play, especially younger kids, we don't look like them at all. Fans emulate, it's all one big scene, the kids look like the bands they're going to see. And obviously, we don't look like them, so that kind of detaches us a little bit more. A lot of things I noticed too, a lot of the people at the show, they weren't there...because it's such a young scene...especially for this last tour...it seemed like a lot of the people there were around just to be in the scene, not even to pay attention to any of the bands except maybe the headliners, who they may or may not have even heard before. But that was the band who was headlining so they were there for them. But they weren't interested in anything else but hanging out, and being part of that social...scene.

You had to work for it, it wasn't spoon fed to you.

Absolutely.

I totally agree with you, 100%. It's a different animal now. The scene is not at all how it was when we were starting to come up, now it's a completely different animal.

Yup. That's maybe for Victory to decide, to work on that issue. We can only do so much as a band. When we tour, I mean, there's only certain things you can say onstage...there are certain things that I won't say onstage...for example I'm not gonna go out of my way and talk about how the scene has to be unified just to get those converts, or people who are into that...we're just going to do what we basically always do. It's gotten us this far, and I'm not saying that I'm at the point where we're comfortable with everything, I still want to keep succeeding at it, but I'm not gonna say something that's not true, something that I don't feel just to win over fans. And a lot of bands do that. They'll say whatever people want to hear. And on this tour, quite a number of times, I said stuff that (laughs) was either insulting to the crowd or maybe just went right over their heads.

Terror's a great band, you know. They're a little more attractive than let's say a Ringworm band is. We're a little more dirty.

Yeah, and they look a little more like the crowds that are out to see them. We're just crossover metalheads, you know what I mean? And you just don't see too many of those kids at shows.

Absolutely.

I agree with you on that one 100%. But that could also be a positive thing if we're put on the right tour, or we're promoted the right way. It's also going to take a little bit of time because a lot of current trends in music right now are so fucking shitty, and I hate to say it, but the scene could be so stupid, and so narrow-minded right now. Because it is such a commercial scene right now. It's like you were talking about earlier, it's so easy for kids to get into something without doing anything. All you need is a computer, and you're in the scene. And that's not necessarily what it's all about.

The album, in my eyes, is doing OK, but I also think it could be doing a whole lot better. We've had some distribution problems and I've talked to numerous, numerous people that actually have gone out, looked for the CD, and they can't find it. Whereas they have bands like Comeback Kid and even Scars Of Tomorrow, and also the With Honor which came out at the same time as ours did, but stores will have their CDs yet won't have ours.

Because there's a lot of problems. A lot of the places, commercial places like Best Buy, they'll go by past record sales, and since our last record (editor's note: Birth Is Pain, 2001), commercially, was not successful whatsoever, they won't order the new one in mass quantities. They'll order two copies since our last one sold like shit, so they'll sell the new copies, and then it will be out of stock and they won't re-order for another week.

I wouldn't know, but I would imagine so because this is the age of technology.

Right, and if they're REALLY cool kids, they buy it from us and come see us play when we come to their town.

That helps us out and the scene even more. It puts money in our pockets so we can keep touring.

That's one thing that is really hurting us, because it's getting some great reviews and others that totally miss the boat, and I'm completely happy with the record, so it doesn't matter what kind of reviews it gets. 99% of the reviews have been pretty stellar and I'm pretty happy with that, so I'm just hoping that Victory doesn't drop the ball so we can finally catch a break, somewhere. Jacob from Converge took us out and those guys are just totally awesome, Jake's really helped us out, but we need someone...we've been trying to work with any booking agent we can get, so they can get us a good tour, which would be really helpful to us. I hope that can happen.

(laughs) Oh yeah, they're on tour with Kreator and Napalm Death. That's like a tour that would be PERFECT for us.

Yeah, that's the thing, I mean a lot of these tours, we're looking for them. That would be such a great tour, it would be so amazing to go out with Napalm Death. Or Obituary, or Kreator, or anything that would be sick.

That's exactly what we've been trying to do for years but we never seem to get those breaks with those tours, and it's been like that since we've gotten back together in 1998. And now we have a really good record and promotion to go along with it, but we're just looking for a tour to get a good break like that. It's sickening seeing all these bands that haven't been around, and I mean, just from being around for so long, we know everybody. We know all these bands, and if we don't, chances are they know who we are. But it's like, how are these bands getting tours like that, and we can't even get a booking agent to work with us?

You're telling me brother!

This is true.

Wow. This last tour wasn't too exciting because we didn't really venture too far from home, so just a couple drunken nights at the bar for that one. One night in D.C. I don't remember anything, I only remember waking up in the van. So I don't really know, you'd have to ask the other guys what happened there.

But I do have an interesting story if you've got a minute.

This was early 2006, maybe late 2005, we were doing a tour that was kind of like our own headlining tour. And it wasn't a good tour, wasn't going well, so we had one date left and we were coming through Indiana; Bible Belt type thing, and everyone's spirits were really low. And I financed everything, I pretty much finance everything about the band. Everyone was bitching and moaning, so I told them "we're gonna do this show, this is the last show, I know everyone just wants to go home." Then I kind of blew up at everybody, so I said "alright, we'll get a hotel room, wake up in the morning, I'll pay up everyone's finances right now so you have nothing to bitch about, then we'll do the show and go home. We're doing it." So everyone didn't say anything to that, and that evening at the hotel, we were parked next to this nice Inn. And we were right next to this little mall, a Bible Belt-type mall in Indiana. So I walked over to the mall, walked around for a while, and then ended up coming to a TGI Friday's or something. I sat down at the bar, it was happy hour, and I start drinking, and drinking, and drinking, and drinking.

And sure enough, seven or eight o'clock rolls around and I'd been there drinking all day. So by that point, I just kept brewing and stewing, and then the whole band comes into the restaurant because they were looking for something to do too. But just a few hours ago they wanted to quit, so I was like "great, I really want to see these assholes." Keep in mind we're in the Bible Belt, and our drummer's got a Cradle Of Filth shirt that says something offensive on the back. We're all scumbags, and we're all talking really loud, saying "fuck this" and "fuck you" and all this stuff, so we all start getting completely hammered.

Ridiculously hammered, OK? And there's families sitting around the bar, completely horrified.

They're horrified. About us in general, and the things we're saying, and at that point I was so fucking mad at everything and the whole world, that I was just calling people up on my cell phone, telling them that I hate their guts. But anyways, it's towards the end of the night and I'm so fucking wasted and the bar was closing, so they we're like "OK you have to pay your bill." So I was trying to give her my credit card and I was actually giving her the room key, and she said "honey, this is your room key" so I said "ah just fucking take my credit card!" but she repeated "it's your room key." Then I looked down, and I had puked earlier, about a half-hour earlier after doing a shot... now I just kind of puked by the bar. And of course I'm puking and there are people like two feet away, and I'm puking all over the bar. So my credit card was in the puke, so I picked it up, wiped it off, gave it to her, and this is the part where I was filled in. I remember up to that part. We went back to the hotel and I was in such a big, fucking drunken rage, that I basically ripped the TV off the little table in the hotel room, and everyone starts freaking out saying "fuck, we're gonna get thrown out!" and then they suggested "we should go to Denny's" but I was like "fuck off, get the fuck outta here, I hate everyone." So they left, and I guess I was lighting fireworks in the parking lot because they saw a bunch of fireworks just shooting giant displays in the parking lot. Then they left Denny's, went back to the hotel, and tried to get into the door, but I had that little latch over the door so you couldn't get in. And there was all this smoke pouring out from underneath the door, and they're thinking "oh my God, this place is on fire!" so they go to the front office but the manager wasn't there, so they didn't have the little key to get in. Eventually the manager comes in, comes from home, they wake her up, I don't know what time in the morning it is, probably three in the morning. She gets into the room, and it's not smoke, it's steam, the entire fucking walls are just sweating, everything's wet. So they go into the bathroom, and I'm there naked in the bathtub, passed out with the shower curtain wrapped around me, and the water's just blasting on it. They think "oh my God, he's dead!" They thought I was dead! One of the guys gave me a little nudge and they shut the water off, so I instantly wake up screaming "argh, turn the fuckin' water back on!" so they turned the water back on and I woke up again in the morning, laying on the bed. I don't remember any of it.

And our drummer had brought this eighteen year-old kid that he knows from his hometown, kinda completely clueless about hardcore, he just wanted to get out on the road and all this shit. This kid was completely terrified of me the next day, after just watching me in this total wrath.

So the next day I went to the desk, and I felt kind of bad, so I said "I'll take the keys back." They're kind of giggling, and ask me (in country music accent) "are you the fella that was passed out in the bathtub?" so I said "yeah, it was me," to which she replied "oh, it's alright, but we thought you was dead, though!" And I'm like "nah, I'm not dead, and I don't think we broke anything." So she said "oh that's OK, come back any time." Probably it was the most excitement they've seen in forever. And then of course we played that show, and it was one of the best shows we did on the tour, it was great. So there's a quick little story.

That's a good one, yeah.

Yeah, last year we did a week.

The European scene is great. Europe, for us, was really great. Basically, we didn't want to commit to a big tour without a new record out, it would have been kind of pointless. But we just wanted to go back to see just how well we'd do once we'd put out a new record, because we hadn't been there in some years. And we were curious to see how well we'd do, so we decided to do a week. Some of the venues were really small, but they were well-suited, like some would hold a hundred or a hundred and ten. And we played a really huge fest in Belgium in front of maybe six thousand people. It went really, really well. In Europe, people tend to respect you a lot more, they appreciate things a lot more. And usually, the American trends don't get overseas for at least a couple of years, if at all. So maybe that helps us out too. But there was still a lot of the girl pants-type scene over there, though.

We did quite well, it was a very successful tour for all of us. It was a good morale booster to let us know that even at this stage in the game, after we've been doing it so long...and sometimes you have to be reminded of it, at least I do personally, because I sacrifice a lot to do this band. It's nice to get the satisfaction that lets you know that you're still relevant. There is still a scene for what we do, and it's quite a big one, if we're exposed to it.

Yeah I've been hoping so too, because you know what it boils down to is, I'm never going to stop playing music in one way or another. I can't see a day when I just won't do it since it's become completely part of my life now, but as far as what I'm investing with the time and sacrifices I'm putting into this band right now, I'm not getting any younger. I said it for the last record, but we didn't give it that good try that we're going to do for this one, but this could be...it's just gotta start paying off in some ways. We're not looking to make a million bucks, but it's gotta start paying off sometime, so I'm really hoping this is the one.

And With Honor too, I believe.

Oh absolutely, at this point, completely. The music video, they're showing commercials on MTV, and I think they ran our video on Fuse. So right off the bat, that's more than they've ever done for us. But for this past record, it was done for about a year, and at first we didn't want it to come out on Victory like I was telling you when we did that interview last year on www.qchc.com. We felt this was probably the strongest record we'd ever done, in terms of the focus going into it. The songs, the song structures are great, we've got a killer lineup, the production is good. I felt so strongly about the record that I didn't want them to just put it out and then watch it mess up.

Right, and that's why it took so long. Everyone was like "first record in four years!?" well, you have to remember, we did that other record in 2001 and toured for two years, and then this last record had been done for over a year. So four years is kind of a tricky title to give to the situation, because it hasn't been four years, we've actually been active all this time. And this last record, I paid for everything myself, looking into the future that they were going to let us go. And then they couldn't be like "well, give us our record!" because I'd say "no, screw you. I paid for this record and I'll take it to a label who really wants it and who can really do something for it". And seven months of back-and-forth with Mr. Brummel, we kind of came to an understanding that we didn't tour because the record wasn't being pushed, and it wasn't being pushed because we didn't tour, and it was a back-and-forth thing. So I said "fine," and it had been a year, so at that point we couldn't wait any longer for this record to get out. I said "well just do what you're supposed to do, do all this stuff you do for these other bands and do it for us." And they seem to be responding to that, so we want to do our part, stay on the road and really push. There are still things that I think they should be doing for us so in that sense it's like every label, but in our situation, there are some things that are vital for us to continue: Getting tour support and actually getting on good tours, so hopefully, they'll help us do that.

Yes.

Well, two.

Yup.

Well, unless we get bought off. But the thing is, we wanted to leave, and they just wouldn't...as we continued talking, I don't know if it was a pride thing...I was like "we're not making you any money, we're not making any money, why do you keep us if we don't fit into Victory's agenda? Why would you even want us? Why? Just let us go. What the hell do you care?" And he really didn't see it that way. Maybe it was the fact that he didn't want anyone else to have something that was his, or maybe it may have been that he knew that it had potential. He is in this to make money, so maybe had something in mind for us, and I'm all for that.

Right, and it has a lot to do with all the promotion they've put into it, which is great. Plus it's a really fucking good record.

Yeah 6 songs.

Well, as far as Matt goes, Matt's key to the band. When we got him in the band it was kind of funny, Frank's only requirement was "well, does he like Kiss?"

And our drummer said "yeah," so Frank asked "well, can he play solos?," and he said "yeah," and then Frank said "well then he's in!" That was before we really knew him. But he's our age, we're all in our early to mid thirties, and he grew up in the same musical environment as we did, with all the early metal. He wasn't so much into the early hardcore scene like Youth Of Today. I mean, I still like my Youth Of Today and other traditional hardcore stuff, but he knows that stuff as well. He's a well-rounded musician. He listens to all types of stuff, he's really talented so his songwriting style fits in completely perfect. Whereas if he's going to write a song, he goes into it thinking, he knows what Ringworm is all about, so he's not going to write a completely death metal song which he could certainly do, because he's been in a couple of death metal bands. But he's going to bring that certain element to the table. And you have to face it, a lot of the hardcore stuff isn't that hard to play, it's basic, like riding a horse.

Actually yeah, a lot of it is underplaying, and sometimes less is more, too. I don't necessarily want to hear fretboard gymnastics.

It doesn't do anything for me, you know? I'm sure you can hit a million notes, but does that make me have some kind of reaction, or make me move or bob my head, or does it just make me want to stand there and watch them play a million notes? That's not suited for us. But Matt's a perfect match and he's really talented, so his songwriting just comes naturally.

Yeah, I think he's gonna.

He's helping them go.

Well, I would hope so, because the guy writes incredible songs. I mean, the guy's still in the band, so we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I would really hope that, if nothing else, he still contributes to the songwriting process. Because I think that's essential to what we're all about. Frank's songs are Frank's songs, if you hear them, you know them. If you're familiar with the songs that he's written, when you hear one, you're like "that sounds like a Frank songs, there's no other way, that's one of his." I know Terror is going in to record a new record, and I'd be really shocked if Frank didn't contribute to any songs, which I'm pretty sure he will contribute to that. I haven't really spoken with him about that's going to happen on the next record, but I'd like to assume that he's still going to contribute his share of songs to a new record, whether or not he plays them in the studio or goes on tour with us. But if he doesn't, I don't think that's something that's going to stop us. We can work through it and we'll move on. With Matt, and with the last record we've shown that other people contributed insofar as songwriting goes. Our drummer wrote a song, I wrote a song, it didn't make the record, but hopefully it will be found on a b-side somewhere or a comp. We're strong enough musicians to move through it if that's the case, but I'm hoping it's not.

Yeah.

He can be pretty crazy sometimes. He wrote the song "Ghosts of The Past" on the album.

That song that he wrote, it just fits right into the album. So he's obviously a decent guitarist. Actually, I think him and Matt worked on arranging stuff, so I think he brought the majority of all those riffs together. He's a decent guitar player and same for pretty much everyone else in the band, I play guitar as well, so if I come up with a riff I show them "and it sounds something like this" just to Matt, then he'll change it a bit before giving it back to me, and he can hot-rod it if he wants to.

I'm trying to go back and think how the song goes, but I don't know, you'll have to ask him.

OK then, so save that question for him.

Well on the album he kind of elevates the drum playing, if you can tell. Anyone can hear the difference between the last record and this one as far as drumming goes.

There were times recording the album when we wanted him to do a little bit less, but then you can't really tell someone to change their style and he's really set in his ways, as well. So he wants to bring his influence into it as well and, looking back on it, I think it worked. It adds a little more of a technical aspect to our music, where some people could say it's pretty boring, just basic riffs. Well, his drumming could take it to a different level. With the vocals though, sometimes you have your basic giddy-up hardcore riff with the same beat. Playing hardcore for so many years, there's only so many ways that you can sing over your basic hardcore drumbeat. You can follow the riff, like following a bouncing ball-type riff and then I'll sing along to it, but it was actually nice having a lot more going on with the drums. That way, it gives your vocals a little something else to follow, makes it a little more intense sometimes. And that's exactly what this record is when it was completely done, listening to it myself for the first time, I was like "this album is pretty intense, it doesn't stop."

It's in your face from top to bottom.

He's doing a band called Soulless, I think they're on Crash Music, they're really fucking talented. Talented thrash metal/death metal type band. They're doing their thing. When he left, he wanted to focus more on getting his life together, because at that time things weren't really going so well for us. We were doing tours, and the record wasn't getting pushed. So he had to do "real life stuff" as I like to call it. He still fills in for Danny if he can't make a show.

Well, a lot, I mean. Taking us out on tour when Jamey did, that was just an enormous boost for us. Especially because we're on Victory, a lot of people just don't want to help us. And Hatebreed, as everyone probably knows, Jamey and Victory Records really don't see eye to eye. So taking us on a tour with him was a big help, he helped us out when he really didn't have to. He doesn't like helping Victory bands out, because then he's helping Victory out. But we've known him for many years, he always speaks very highly of us, and we've been great friends for years and he's really into the new Ringworm record. Every time he plays, or we're in the conversation, and especially when he comes to Cleveland, he's always plugging our band. He does everything...he talks well of us. And the same with Scott. Scott Vogel grew up listening to Ringworm, we're the same age, we all grew up together, he grew up in Buffalo, we grew up in Cleveland, we'd see each other at shows, and he likes Ringworm a lot. He grew up listening to us, and I grew up listening to a lot of his bands, like Slugfest, Despair, then Buried Alive later on. And Terror is doing quite well, so he helps us out, and talks well of us as well.

Yeah, shit like that, which is awesome. But it's kind of funny sometimes, like on the Converge tour, Jacob would say something and kids would just clap just because they think they're supposed to. It's like "let's hear it for these guys" and they'd just clap, but do they really even know what he said?

They clap because the guy told them to clap. It's like that sometimes, and I think it's kind of funny because usually we'll play, and then we'll be hanging out at the back, at the bar or something, and I'll be standing next to someone but they don't even know who I am because either they weren't there, or didn't even watch us play. It's like "let's hear it for Ringworm!" and they start clapping, but I'm like "you weren't even watching us play!" So sometimes it's like that, but in general we totally appreciate the help from those guys.

Totally, and I can't blame him. Sometimes I feel like doing that too. You get frustrated, you know? Sometimes you look out there, and a lot of the time it's one of the most pathetic things you've ever seen. And Mike's not the type of guy who's gonna blow smoke up your ass. He will say what he wants to say and talk about how he sees things. He's right about a lot of stuff, and some would say he moved on to bigger and better things. Getting his life together...although I have heard that they're doing a reunion show.

At the El N Gee, maybe? Yeah I heard about that, I might have to go up there for that.

That's what I've been hearing. That's another thing with Victory. One of the reasons why they maybe wanted to keep us is because they get slagged a lot in these past years about their changing agenda, and their whole roster of bands.

We're pretty much their last link to anything that they were about when they first started. We're the last link in that chain. There are people who say "dude, I hate Victory Records, but I'll buy your record, I like your band." We're that last link that they have that's holding on to anything they once had that was true hardcore. I mean, there's a couple of bands on there like With Honor and stuff, a couple of those bands that are still kind of hardcore bands. But of that whole roster of bands, when you had your Integrity, you had your Hatebreed, and you had In Cold Blood.

Warzone, yeah, and Strife, and even some early Snapcase stuff, and All Out War, Hoods. They're basically all gone and we're the only band that's left. So we're that last link to what they used to be about.

Well that was a lot of the stuff that we talked about when we decided to stay with them, because if it was going to be like the last record, I just would have bootlegged the record myself, and then said "hey, sue me."

Exactly. When it boils down to it, they're still a good label, they have plenty of money, and they have plenty of opportunities, and places where they can push us. They've got the power and the money to do it. Some people say "well, we would just like to get on a label that awesome bands are on" but I could care less. The popular bands make them millions of bucks, and that's good, at least the label has money. They can push it. Just spend a little of that money on us and I'll be happy, it doesn't take much.

Yeah.

Well, we recorded the majority of the basic tracks at one point, and then it took about a few months for me to get in there. Because we weren't going to compete with all these big-budget bands, we're definitely not a big budget band. And especially when I was paying for it by myself, we had to get in there when we could. So we recorded pretty much everything in a couple of days, and then I would go back a little bit at a time and do the vocals. He was like "well, I've got two hours today from noon ‘til two, before I've got this other Jive Records band coming in" or something.

So I would come in and try to hammer out two songs, doing it a little bit at a time until we got the record done.

Well, Bill Korecky's great, don't get me wrong. We were just looking for a different sound. We tuned down I think half a step, which was not so much a compromise, but just we wanted a heavier sound. Straight E tuning was fine, very rarely do bands use that tuning nowadays. But we've tuned down a bit, and plus it was a little easier to record there because it was so close to home, which was the major thing. Because Bill lives maybe an hour away.

Cost and schedule, plus I mean we wanted a different sound. Ben's got a really got ear, he's got a younger ear too. He's kind of a little more in touch with what's going on in this type of music scene. So that's not a slag on Bill, Bill's one of my favorite guys ever, and I can see us working together in the future again. Because I have other projects too, so maybe going back to work with him someday again.

First off, there's the Holy Ghost thing that we've been doing for quite a while. That's pretty much on the backburner for now, but we have plenty of material, just a matter of finding time to do it.

I did a demo with this band called Holy Ghost in ninety-nine, and at the time we broke up, everyone was going their separate ways, I was playing guitar and singing as well. Then we had three guitar players. The songs that I've been writing are a little more off track than what we were doing at the time. The demo is really more metal-based than hardcore, it's just pretty much metal.

Yeah, it was all guys from Cleveland, it was Chris Dora our old drummer and then Aaron Ramirez who, after Holy Ghost broke up, we got him to play in Ringworm. And then it was a couple of other guys including Jim, who plays in Chris' band now Soulless, so with that band everyone went and did their own separate thing. But by the time that band dissolved, I had fifteen to twenty songs of material that would need to be put together. But Deathwish is putting out the demo from ninety-nine.

It's supposed to be out soon, it's been "coming out soon" for a while, so it's kind of been pushed back. But it will be out.

And I'm also doing another band called Glutton, we play out all the time in Cleveland. It's more a Motorhead-type rock, but it's fun.

Yeah, it kind of reminds me that music sometimes can still be fun, I mean, we play bars and just have a good time, drink, and everyone parties and has a good time. Just rock out. So I kind of get my rocks off with other bands, because you can't really change the style of what Ringworm is. So if I write a song that's like a Motorhead song, it's in that band.

We'll see, I mean right now it's just fun. OK let's put it this way, this is the perfect analogy: My wife is Ringworm, and I'm married to Ringworm. And then, of course, I have a girlfriend on the side who's fun, and new, and exciting. I mean, you still love your wife.

But then you've gotta have a girlfriend on the side who's exciting, and fun, and new, and fresh, and shit like that. So that's Glutton. And then of course, you have your dream girl which is your perfect, perfect woman that you could ever imagine, which would be Holy Ghost if I ever got that off the ground. That's my analogy of it. So I'm not stressing out about it because I don't want that to be tainted by time restrictions and having to get a record out, and worrying about touring. That's something that...I've put a lot of time into writing those songs, and when they get recorded, they'll get recorded. I'd like to see that happen soon. So keep an eye out for that.

Hopefully. You haven't heard the Holy Ghost stuff, huh?

I could probably get you a copy of that. It should be coming out soon. So hopefully get that out, and then push the new Holy Ghost stuff, because it's really different; it's like Souls At Zero-era Neurosis, Godflesh-type stuff.

Absolutely, absolutely. I love that stuff. I think that stuff is great. And he seems way more happier doing that than he was in Godbelow, because that's the stuff he's into. He doesn't really seem to have any pressure. So when you can just relax and make the music you like sometimes it's a lot better, it's a lot more fun. Sometimes more rewarding.

They did?

Fuck!

Yeah, I've got it.

Absolutely, actually I'm trying to think of who plays guitar in that.

Yeah, maybe I'll be doing backups on their upcoming album. And I'm also talking to the guitar player from Santa Sangre, Corey.

Yeah, and you know Buske?

We're maybe putting something together, some heavy-type metal shit like Santa Sangre. I pretty much keep my hat in the ring for anything. If someone wants me to sing for one of their bands or something, if I'm friends with them, I'm totally down with it. As long as it's not like Ringworm, because then there's no point. I wouldn't want to do something I'm already doing, I'd rather try to experiment and do other stuff.

A lot of guys are like that, and especially Buske, he's a good dude too. I get a lot of pats on my back, like "hey dude, new record, fucking awesome."

Hmm. Am I bitter about it? I can't say that I should be, because when we first came out, we had plenty of opportunities. When we first came out everything was really exciting, and people were really excited about the band. And we really didn't take that opportunity to do much. We were really lazy. Plus, none of us had money to buy vans, to buy merchandise, shit like that. We didn't really have any jobs, and you know, there was no money in it. So maybe...actually no, I'm not bitter. Everything happens for a reason, it seems like everything comes full circle.

Hopefully it's coming full circle for us, this time around. If something is good, and you put your heart in it, and it's done for the right reasons, it's never going to get old. I mean, we can still play the first songs that we wrote, and they still hold up.

Sure, I remember that very well.

Yeah, I know, we listened to it on the road. It's pretty fucking good.

Right, as long as we're still relevant. What it boils down to is, if nothing else happens with this band, I'd be stupid to say I'd be disappointed at the things that we've done and the things that we've accomplished. And I'm not saying that because I'm content with where we're at, but if things were to end tomorrow or even right now, I could sit back and be completely satisfied at the mark that we've left on our style of music and the whole scene. Which is...there are lots of bands that have sold a million times more records than us, but are people still going to know about them years from now? Probably not.

I definitely agree. Our musicianship is a little bit better, we're a little bit older, and sometimes that's good because you're wise. Older and wiser. We're better musicians, we're all better at what we do. The only downfall of being older is that you have more responsibilities. And that's the only tough part, because you can't just get up and go drive around and eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, get paid fifteen bucks and live in a van...nobody's really into that. But if we were at this level when I was twenty-one, or twenty-two, I'd be stylin'. But right now, as I said, I own three business so everything that we accomplish from here on is good. I'd like to see a lot more happening with this band.

Not a problem dude, not a problem, I appreciate the interview man.

Hey thanks man, we really appreciate it.