Lords mastermind Chris Owen spent some quality time with Lambgoat's Drew Ailes in early-November of 2005. Personally, I can't believe Drew stopped the interview to watch Laguna Beach.

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I've doing a bunch of stuff. We were doing some new Lords shit earlier, but I'm actually right now mixing some stuff for this band from Syracuse called Engineer.

Oh yeah? Yeah, I just finished with their record about a week ago and there's some changes where I have to go back and re-mix some shit. But with Lords, there's some new songs we have that we've been working on. We are recording two songs that are going to be on a split seven inch with this band called In Tongues from here. It's some of the guys who used to be in a band called Kodan Armada. Hyperrealist is putting that out, it'll be out in December. We're also doing an extra bonus track that's going to be in the vinyl for 'Swords'.

Yeah. We're just doing that single with Hyperrealist and that split with In Tongues, but we don't have any real records planned right now.

It's been really good so far. Yeah. They're very easy to work with and pretty fair to work with. We're all pretty happy with it, thus far, anyway.

Tony has played in a numerous amount of local bands in the last decade. Like, just a shitload of local bands. More notably, he played in Crain for a while, did a tour with Retsin, and worked with a few other groups. He's mostly a drummer, he played drums in all of those bands, but he's played bass in a few bands too. He's just a friend of ours and we've talked on and off about him playing bass for us. It never really kind of worked out for some reason or another. After we had talked to him about going out to the west coast with us just to fill in, because he was in a few other bands at the time, too, and he did that and pretty much decided that he wanted to stick around afterwards.

Well, that's all kind of up in the air right now. There are a couple of different...basically as of right now, there's two main people we've been talking to about booking. There's ups and downs on either side and a couple of bands we're also talking about going over with. As of right now, we're just trying to figure out what would be the easiest and best opportunity for the band to take, and most importantly, the band where we would lose as little or as least amount of money as possible. Preferably none.

Let me talk about some interviews. There's been some ridiculous ones and some...actually, it's funny, because earlier you were worried about the tape recorder working. So far, one of the best interviews I've done and one of the coolest people I've talked to as far as an interview was this guy, Wade, from Metal Maniacs. We were on the phone forever and just had this long, long, lengthy and in-depth conversation about the band, and it was awesome. And then he called me back the next day and the tape recorder was fucked up. But uh, yeah. A lot of interviews are just really stock-generic questions. People ask you, like, "what's your favorite color?"

And the second problem I've noticed, recently, because I've never really done a lot of interviews at all, until like, 'Swords'. Another thing I notice is that a lot of people tend to not ask you questions. It's like the interviewer has already determined what your band is about. There was this one guy, for a place I won't name names, but it was probably the most prominent magazine that has a featured interview with Lords, or an article on us, calls me and instead of asking me questions, he says, "wouldn't you agree that..." and then he makes a statement. And I was like, "no, actually I don't agree," and I would clarify and the whole time he would just go, "mhmm, yeah. mhmm." At certain points, he would argue with me about it. He would have an assumption that was wrong and then I would explain the truth about a situation and then he would argue with me about it. And I think with this particular person, and other people I talk to, they've already written the article, basically. "Oh, I listened to the Lords record, and this is what I think it's all about," and they go ahead and say all this stuff. One of the mistakes that people tend to think is that we're younger hardcore kids and this is our first band or something like that, because this is the first big release this band has had. Which is totally untrue. Pretty much Lords is the first band that Stan and I have done that has been moderately successful, whereas like, Tony has played in bands much, much, much, more popular than Lords. We're all in our late 20's and early 30's. We're pretty oblivious and unrelated, pretty much, to contemporary hardcore.

Sometimes. I think it really depends. Back to before, I think a lot of it is just lazy journalism with certain people we've talked to. "Oh, Lords. New record on Jade Tree. Let's interview them."

Yeah, yeah.

The truth is, I've never actually seen this site until I was recording a band, some kids - this emo band, and they were like, "your record is album of the week at Lambgoat!" And I was like, "huh?"

[laughs] Yeah. Because I pretty much use the internet exclusively for Email and porno.

[Laughs]

Let me think. I don't think any of us have actually gone to jail. I know that I and maybe a couple other of us have spent a few hours in the back of police cars, but that's about it. We haven't gotten caught doing anything too bad.

No. Well.

Yeah, well. I'm trying to think of a tactful way to address this topic. There are many crimes that I'm more than willing to commit, however....there are things that I would do that could possibly put me in jail, but if there was a degree of certainty that if I do this, I am going to get caught, versus if I do this, I could possibly get caught, then I probably wouldn't do it.

Some people don't really give a fuck, you know?

How younger?

When I was eleven, no, I probably wouldn't have thought I'd be doing what I'm doing exactly right now. I was really into music then, but I hadn't even started playing guitar then. I'd always have my headphones on with Master Of Puppets and fuckin'...Guns N' Roses, saying "I'm gonna start a band one day!" But like, probably my idea of what I would be doing if I was playing in a band was drastically different than the reality of what I'm actually doing now.

What I'm going to be when I grow up? I think I'm already that.

Well yeah, I'm 27 years old. I don't think I'm going to do that much more maturing from this point.

No, no. Absolutely not. Here's the other thing, too. Sort of along those lines. Something that me and my friends used to talk about for a long time. I've decided that I'm essentially unemployable to those type of things. Really, for the last eight years, I haven't even had a real job. Now all I do is play in Lords and do the studio here in Louisville. It doesn't feel weird to me. It doesn't feel exciting to me. It feels normal. I feel that when I wake up every day and go to the studio, I feel natural. I feel like I'm in my natural environment. This is just what I'm supposed to be doing. And I've always felt like that, like, "what do I have to do today? I have to go to band practice. Let's go to band practice." And that's my total, completely normal mode of living. If I'm doing something else, say, I've never actually worked at a desk, but the last sort of real job I've had was at UPS.

Not what I did. I worked there for eight years, just about. It was ridiculous. I worked two and a half to three hours a day. At first I was helping load airplanes; I worked at the airport. Sometimes it was hard work, but the days that you had to work hard were few and far between. The last two or three years that I worked there, I literally did nothing. I pretty much toured the break rooms. I had this weird job where I had a radio and I was just "extra help". And if somebody ever fucked something up, I was supposed to go help them. Basically, I didn't have a supervisor and I came and went as I pleased.

No, I was forced to resigned due to touring too much, this year.

I don't know. See, that's the thing. The only reason I was able to stay at that job was because of the fact that it demanded such absurdly little effort. It got to the point where I'd be sitting in the fucking break room, drinking a cup of coffee and reading the paper, and then they'd call me to go do something that I was technically supposed to be doing. Something I was being paid to do. But I'd just get furious and pissed and be like, "Fuck! I don't want to fucking do that! I'm reading the fucking paper!" You know? "I'm busy! God damn it!" But with everything, like, when I was in school....I very briefly went to college, when I'm doing that shit, I'm just like, fucking miserable and angry. I walk out. The second I wake up in the morning, my stomach is in a fucking knot, my teeth are fucking gritting, my fists are clenched - I'm just fucking pissed and furious and overall, a despicable person. Because it's a totally unnatural fucking mode of living for me. And I don't really think I'm that different than probably most other people.

Most of the people just accept the fact that that's the way the rest of their life is going to be. So rather than doing that, I just spend a lot of time working on stuff like recording bands for the last ten years.

Well, you know. First of all, I don't really think in terms of retiring. I don't have health insurance. Ironically, I had health insurance when I worked at UPS, and I used to have a lot of chronic sinus infection problems. I would get really fucking sick, to the point where I couldn't swallow or breathe right for like, two or three days, for once a month, until I fucking quit working there. And I haven't been sick since I quit. I think it was just a matter of general stress on the body. Even before I was working there. From the time I was about 11 years old, when I started middle school, up until then. I was just sort of in a constant state of feeling like shit, all the fucking time. And like, I actually physically...my physical health has improved dramatically.

Yeah! Exactly!

Yeah, I read it in Reader's Digest one time, I know what you're talking about.

[laughing] But as far as what the future holds, a lot of people are really obsessed with that. There's a point where you have to be realistic and you do have to consider what you're going to do in the future. But then, the thing is, there's a lot of decisions that I made ten years ago that are directly affecting where I am today, but those decisions were like, "fuck, should I go buy a bag of pot with this money, or should I save and buy a microphone?" So that's what I did. There's a lot of things and a lot of friends of mine, they're like, going out every night and blowing all their fucking cash in bars and they're broke, and I'm still, to this day, buying guitars and amps and stuff like that. I can drink for free when I'm on tour and people feel sorry for me.

Yeah. So I think that in a lot of respects, I'm very conscious of the future, but as far as to the point of retirement? This is something that not everybody picks the right way, but I have no desire at this point in my life to grow old. This is a whole other conversation in itself, but I don't believe in the sanctity of life. I don't believe in...any sort of higher power or ultimate consequence, and I have no problem taking my own life. Once I get to the point where I'm physically or mentally...or other reasons, it becomes unbearable...

Yeah, I have, actually. It's fine, just as long as you put in the interview that you have to leave to go watch Laguna Beach.

[interview resumes]

Oh, I was just talking about how I have no qualms with, once I get to a point where for whatever reason, I cannot function in society any longer, then I have no problems killing myself. I don't believe in the sanctity of life. I don't believe that...like I said, it is a whole other conversation. One of the things I spend a whole lot of time on, one thing I'm very involved in, aside from music, is debunking religion in a variety of manners. I'm real big into psychology and stuff aside from just the history of world religions and how they've evolved, like the psychology behind what appeal they have to any kind of people. So engaging in that thing, you start to realize certain things about yourself. Certain things that once you know it, you can never un-know it.

It is, it is. Some people have to have things like religion because that's the only motivation they have to continue living. They have to chase this invisible carrot on a stick that they'll never really attain, but as long as they think they're chasing something, that's what gets them through the day.

Yeah, totally. Me, what I do, is I constantly question my motivations behind everything I do. Which I think, overall, is a better thing. Truthfully, I think if the rest of the world did that, it would be a lot better place. People would get along a lot better because people would be more honest, not just to each other, but to themselves. But that's just what I think, what the fuck do I know?

Yeahhhhh. My importance to...what?

[laughing] "I know it's me..."

See, you're just kind of on the surface of it. It's really way more fucked up and disheartening than you're making it out to be. In my opinion, it's not that it's about buying things. If you really want to get down to it, it's cultural and societal. There's different expectations in different cultures and societies because not everybody in the world shares the same values. Americans are disgustingly consumer driven, and that's a fact here. But what you have to do is take what's behind that, and then ultimately, it goes back to not so much buying things, but it goes back to your idea of success.

And success is dictated by, again, this is a cultural thing. Different cultures and societies have different ideas of what success is. But take that back another step. Ultimately, what is the goal of success? Why do you want to be successful? And there's two reasons here. Number one is that it's obviously personal comfort. We like to be comfortable with what we're doing, in certain respects, the way our societies are dictates financial success in order to be comfortable. And two, is reproduction. And this is it, if you want to get really into another reason why people have religion and things like that is because there are certain questions that in all reality, we do not possess the answers to. There's things that currently do not exist to be known. This doesn't mean that they will never exist to be known - it just means that they're currently unknown. And as far as a meaning for existence currently doesn't exist to be known. But you know, like, three thousand years ago, when there was lightning in the sky and the Greeks were like, "what the fuck is this," and the answer didn't exist to be known, people said, "oh, it comes from Zeus' index finger," and that seemed pretty plausible at the time because they didn't have the technology that we have now. And of course, now, if you were to say that, people would just say you're fucking retarded.

Oh, hell no. No. I don't believe in a soul or any of that garbage. I'll get to that here in a second. The only thing that we do know, as far as why life exists, if you look at it from an objective point of view, all life, not just human life but animal and even plant life, exists to procreate it's own species. The species of each living species exists to sustain itself. Another fact is that they don't exist in harmony. Nature does not exist in harmony, nature exists in constant combat; in constant war. It's all various species fighting for...

Supremacy, and then when you have equal amounts of them, they kind of balance themselves out. That's what we call harmony, but it's not really harmony.

Yeah. It's just constant and equal amounts of combat. It's constant war. It's not harmony.

That's why we have different countries and nationalism. We just split it off and made that concept so much more complex than it needs to be.

Yeah but see, that's a little bit different, I think. Because there's, like I said, the difference humans have as opposed to a variety of other living things is that we have better cognitive abilities, that we're able to understand our surroundings a little more. Not only that, but why things happen. So with a better cognitive ability, that's our adaptive advantage. Everything has an adaptive advantage. Cheetahs run really fucking fast and giraffes have really long necks so they can get shit at the top of the trees. Our adaptive advantage is a better cognitive ability: that means we have a better understanding of our surroundings so we can better learn how to manipulate our surroundings to better serve ourselves.

Yeah. Well, I mean, physically, we're not too supreme. There are plenty of other animals that are bigger and stronger and faster than others. And I don't think it definitely happened for a reason, I just think that the early humans that were the smartest were the ones that survived, and the ones that weren't were the ones that became extinct. It's like natural selection. The animals that are able to adapt to their own surroundings are the ones that will survive longer. It's the same respect in the same reason as cockroaches. If there's a nuclear holocaust, everything will die except for cockroaches because of their ability to reproduce fast enough and their ability to adapt to changing situations fast enough. Faster than we could.

Hmm, I think it's a little simpler than that. I don't think it's premeditated thing. I think it goes back to two things that I think are at the root of any human conflict. Greed and ignorance. When you go to that level, any kind of conflict in the world either boils down to one of the two. It's either competition for resources, which equates to wealth and success, or it's a matter of ignorance; either natural or willful. And I think religion is definitely a big part of the ignorance problem. That's a big element there. The same reason why the base of the current administration, they were elected up on Evangelical Christians. People who don't believe in evolution. People who don't believe in something we've observed in the last hundred years. And they don't believe in that because it's ignorance. It's combined natural and willful ignorance. There's certain things that some of these people have never been exposed to. Certain information and general facts...

...so they do things so that they're not exposed to them. And then...you know, so on and so-forth. Kind of a tangent here. There was something that I was going to tie this all into. I kind of totally forgot about what we were talking about five minutes ago.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Ultimately, the reason why I say that I don't believe...I don't need...I'm not chasing an invisible carrot on a stick. That's what I think most people have in life to varying degrees. I don't necessarily think I have one of those. I do what makes me happy and comfortable and I try to not do things if it's possible to infringe on someone else's happiness or comfort. And when I get to a point where I can't live happily and comfortably anymore, then I have no problem not living. Does that make any sense?

That's a respectful thing. To be able to...for someone who can live on their own terms, why not die on your own terms?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Really.

Yeah. Well, there's certain...there's a lot of different circumstances that a person could be in. Like, me, myself, if I had some incurable disease that would ultimately kill me anyway, I would rather plan out of my own death in a fashion that would be on my terms and under my conditions and die before I got to the point where I was physically incapacitated.

Oh yeah, yeah. I don't know if that's proper to talk about on tape. And another thing, this is as specific as I'll get, but if there was a situation....in which that...the cause of your distress that was making your life so unbearable belonged to some other...organization or person...it's really no different than why we have suicide bombers. If you're going to die, you might as well make it worthwhile. And if nothing else, if you can at least bring some misery up on the people that have brought you misery, in the process, then it's a success.

Yeah, but a lot of it, whether it's right is a matter of opinion. But me personally, I would never wish any suffering upon anybody that I did not think deserved it.

[laughing] Oh. Uh...

Our drummer, Stan. He does all the art for Lords.

Yeah, he does all of it.

Is it frightening?

No, he's real influenced by like, Art Chantry. I don't know if you're familiar with his stuff at all. Art Chantry is his biggest single influence. And there's a lot of really high contrast cut and paste stuff. His art didn't use any computers or anything like that, it's all cut and paste.

So that's the kind of stuff Stan's always been into and he's done a lot of shit like that. With Lords stuff, I'll be like, "man, you should make something with this on it," and he'll be like, "cool," and do something. We'll like, "make it as ridiculous as possible!" That's usually how the "check this out, it's fucking absurd!" "Yeah! It's fucking awesome! It makes no sense!" That's about the...the motivation.

On occasion, yeah.

Yeah, there's not really...I mean, it's kind of different. Sometimes it's like that, sometimes it's not. But there is a large percentage of everything that our band does, from music or art or the way we conduct ourselves in general, that happens for no other reason than because we think it's ridiculous and we can. So we'll pick doing things that we think are stupid in front of other people, especially if other people don't think it's stupid or whatever.

In a lot of ways, I think music, especially these days, and even all art...I don't know if you're a Charles Bukowski fan at all, but Bukowski pretty much hated all of his contemporary authors and he thought it was stupid. He thought what they did was stupid. And I feel sort of the same way about like, modern music. Not even just modern music, but music in general. I mean, music is fucking dumb. Do you know what it is? It's a vibration. You're doing something that's making these air molecules vibrate, and these vibrations go through space, and then they hit someone's ears, and then the bones in their ears rattle and it translates into a certain noise, this sound in their brain. And some people think certain sounds are cooler than other sounds. Whole industries are built around it and all this shit, and really, it's fucking dumb. But I still do it because it brings me pleasure. But I think at the same time, because I know it's dumb and so many people don't, especially because there's a lot of people in bands that are really self-obsessed and they think they're really fucking important, and they think that they're really doing something special. Well, let me rephrase this. Not only this topic, but this is how I feel in many other topics. A lot of people think, they try to say that everything in life is equally important. And I think that's actually a bad philosophy.

Well, just like, people think that what they do is important and they try to say that. I think that's a problematic world view. Because certain things are self-contradictory, you see? You cannot say, for instance, that NWA is equal to Skrewdriver. You can't say that. And that creates problems. Sometimes problems, not only in music, even in like, politics or whatever else, religion, problems that erupt into very, very, bad and wide-encompassing disasters. So my world view, is that instead of everything is equally important, is that everything is equally stupid. That playing in a band is just as stupid as being a doctor, which really, is just as stupid as being a king, or what the fuck ever. And that stupidity is based upon the futility of existence and blah, blah, blah, and so forth.

I agree and disagree at the same time. There's a lot of things. I think most forms of art suck, but I think that everybody should be doing what they want to do, but the reason they should be doing it is because they want to do it.

Yeah. See, I think everybody, especially in art, if there's an expression that they feel they need to make for whatever reasons or motivations they do, then by all means, fucking do it. But don't expect that anyone else is going to give a fuck. The problem I have is people who make art and then, especially, I'm sure you've probably encountered this, I don't think anybody should ever make their art public if they cannot take criticism of it. I'm sure you probably know what I mean. But if you send your record to a fucking reviewer at a website or a magazine or whatever...

...and they trash it, that's what they thought. That's what that person thought about it. And if you can't handle that, don't make your art public. And if you're comfortable and that person's opinion doesn't matter to you, then so what?

Yeah, exactly. If you care about these people's opinion, you'll listen to it and act accordingly. And if you don't care, don't solicit it. And even if you do, there's a lot of...obviously a good review is a good thing. That can turn people on to your music and stuff. But there's a lot of bad reviews for Lords that I thought were good reviews because they described what they thought the record was, which, sometimes was the same thing I think the record is, and they just didn't like it.

[laughing] I just feel like there's an airplane soaring way above that person's head. I think I read that somewhere. That's the one where said that the lyrics were fantasy lyrics about D&D?

Oh, see, that's somebody who read one line and doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

I'd like for that person to explain to me the reason for hardcore.

Yeah, yeah. That's funny. Another thing is that, especially modern music, this is another one of my opinions, lyrically, hardcore music is at an all time low. The band that really influenced me the most, lyrically, would be like, Kinghorse, from Louisville.

Yeah. They were like, late 80's, early 90's. They're really big around here. Danzig produced the record. They didn't really do too much else. When I talk to anybody outside of Louisville who has seen Kinghorse, they usually give me the same story which is usually like, "they played this show and everybody except for me and five of my friends went outside when they played," but that person and their five friends become crazy and maniacal cult-like fans. They were just really an intense sort of metal/punk band, not really too dissimilar to what Lords does now. Here, Kinghorse is like a religion here in Louisville. People either love and worship it obsessively, or they hate it obsessively. There's very few people who are in the middle when it comes to that band. Lyrically, that was one of my biggest influences. It was very intelligent yet artful and also scathingly angry and mean. That's what I try to do with Lords. I don't expect everybody understand it because I'm not trying to make everybody understand it. I like songs about things that I have experienced in some way and obviously care about to some extent and things that have moved me in a variety of different ways. But first and foremost, it's a matter of expression to me. I would write it whether I sang it to myself in my basement or put it on a record released on Jade Tree or whatever. The audience doesn't dictate the form of my art. So that's why I don't expect everybody to get into it. If somebody really wanted me to explain to them what it's about, I would. The subject matter isn't really all that different than what any other hardcore band sings about, just maybe in a different way. The problem I have is most modern hardcore bands' lyrics are just fucking terrible. It's the way I thought when I was eleven years old. I don't think that way anymore. I don't make those same kind of analogies. I don't hear it that way in my brain, so I write the way I think about things. And that's just my own perspective, because I mean, better or worse, it's my own personal preference. So...anyway.

You were asking me about something or another about a portion of a review.

What's up with all our hair?

[Laughs] Uh...I don't know. That's all I got.

Eh, maybe. I think he's talking about...down there.

I really can't say. To tell you the truth, I really never thought that the band would be as well-recieved as we've been recently. And that's cool. I like that. I think anybody likes when they do something, performance or art, that other people like. That's cool. But I have no idea, really. Like I said, I never really thought that that many people would ever give a fuck about this. I've been in the same kind of bands for almost ten years in Louisville. Usually it's the kind of thing where one or two other people you meet who are in other bands are like, "that was really cool." Not the kind of thing that most of the kids that go to shows like or relate to.

Well, I don't actually feel that everyone should listen to Kinghorse, because...well, I mean, it'd be cool if they did, but most people won't like it. It's also one of those things that's more of an experience. Recent bands, I'd have to say Wrangler Brutes.

Wrangler Brutes are one of the only relatively new bands that I've heard that I'm just fucking blown away by, that I'm like, "this is fucking awesome!" They did that U.S. tour and we were kind of a month behind them and I kept talking to people in places, like, "Man! Did you see Wrangler Brutes? We're they fucking bad?!" And people were just like, "Meh, they were okay."

Nah, I don't think I've ever heard that band.

Wrangler Brutes are something that I really like. I think the music is interesting and just totally rockin' and punk, but I think it's interesting too. It's not just like, three chords, or whatever. And lyrically, it's something that's really witty and sarcastic, but still angry, and almost comical but not in a goofy dumb way. In an angry-comical way. I don't know if that makes sense. Another band that I'm always singing the praises of, to largely deaf ears, is Voivod.

That's like, newer stuff, isn't it?

That shit sucks.

I don't really like 'Angel Rat' that much. There's two Voivod records. They're one of those bands that started out as just kind of a bad thrash band.

Yeah. Then they had this period of time where they actually got weirder and weirder, and fucking, that's the part I really liked. And then they kind of got sort of a weird peak, and then all the new shit is like nu-metal. It's fucking terrible. And their old shit, like 'War and Pain' and that stuff, I'm not really that big of a fan. I don't like it.

First and foremost, 'Nothingface', I don't know if you've heard that one. That's the pinnacle of Voivod. The other one I would recommend that I really liked a lot was 'Killing Technology'. I don't know if you've heard that one at all.

No, hah. 'Killing Technology' I haven't listened to in a long time because it was stolen from me, but I like that one a lot. But 'Nothingface' is my favorite. That album in particular was very influencial on me, musically, because it was really weird and hard, but not heavy. They were a really interesting and dynamic band, especially for the period. I sort of relate that band to a more technically proficient version of some of these noisy like, Gravity Records bands. Or kind of the new technical/noise hardcore. I listen to that record and like, that band was doing the same kind of stuff, and in my mind, better, years ago.

Obviously I'm a huge Slayer fan and Black Flag, and I'm really into early Rollins band stuff. Those are also big personal influences on me. Man, what else? I'm kind of braindead right now.

Something interesting that not many people know? I don't know, there's probably lots and lots of little things that might be interesting.

Fuck, I don't know. Stan and I have been playing together since 2000 in just various incarnations of what essentially has been the same band. We were originally a four piece. I don't know if many people know that or not. The first line-up of Lords was me and Stan, and this guy Billy Bisig, who played bass for Elliott, and this guy, Steve George, who used to be in another band that me and Stan were in before that, and Steve was also in that band, The National Acrobat. We had two guitar players. Basically, Billy and Steve were both really good friends of ours. Stan and I had played with Steve before, but he quit because he was in school and real busy. Then he moved out of that and went into a band again. After the second tour we did with Breather Resist, both of them quit. Steve met a new girl and kind of didn't want to do all of the work that was involved in being a full-time band, and then Billy, sort of the same reason. A little bit lazy. Didn't really want to do all the work. On top of that, he couldn't really play a lot of the songs anyway. [laughs] So it ended up working out alright.

I don't know. That's a dangerous thing to say to me. We could start talking about fucking science or something stupid. I guess this is good enough.